First up tonight is a devon-based Entrepreneur Hi I'm Siobhan Miller I am a mom to Three boys when it comes to business Resting on her Laurels is not part of Siobhan's vocabulary thank you it's Definitely not been easy I've made a lot Of sacrifices mainly sleep social time Time with my family for many years it's Just been my self working day and night To make the business what it is today Make your birth better we were just Talking about this over lunch were we we Were I think you just stepped out for a Moment I just go completely glazed we'll Be entrepreneurs pitch hold the dragon's Attention more than Sarah's lunchtime Table talk Hi Dragons I'm Siobhan Miller I'm the Founder of the positive Birth Company I'm a mum of three and I am on a mission To make antenatal and postnatal Education and support more accessible For everyone Better education and better support Reduces the risk of intervention reduces The risk of postnatal depression and Saves the NHS money I started teaching hypnobirthing in 2016 And it's fair to say I've worked Tirelessly ever since alongside raising My children to grow the business to what It is today alongside offering group Classes and private one-to-one coaching
We are home to the multi-award-winning Digital pack the world's most affordable Accessible and fully comprehensive Online hypnobirthing program and we're The creators of freyja the world's first Hypnobirthing friendly virtual birth Partner app Freya will coach you through Every single contraction that you Experience with a simple breathing Technique can help you to relax in Between with a mix of positive Affirmations and calming visualizations In the last year our turnover has been In excess of one million pounds with a Gross profit of over 95 percent and a Net profit of approximately 75 percent I'm here today to ask for an investment Of 136 000 pounds in exchange for one Percent equity in the business thank you [Music] Hypno birthing courses and support is The prospect on offer from Siobhan Miller She's asking for 136 000 pounds in Exchange for just one percent of her Company Sarah Davies is first to examine the Business opportunity Hi I'm Sarah hi Sarah so I'm really Keen To know a little bit more about you know A million turnover is a pretty Impressive place to get the business to What did that Journey being how long Have you been working towards this I
Suppose it started I became a mum when I Was 21 but my birth was really traumatic So that sort of left me with a lot of Postnatal anxiety so then seven years Later when I was pregnant with my second Son I discovered hypnobirthing and it Just changed everything for me I went on To give birth a home on the sofa and I Felt like an absolute hero and I just Thought this is what I want to do I want Every woman to feel like this and then In 2017 I made a whole series of free Videos I put those up on YouTube they've Been watched hundreds and hundreds of Thousands of times and then I went on to Develop the online course which we Launched in March 2018 and it yeah Really quickly took off so last year Your turnover was a million and so do You still own 100 of the company I do Yes Well honestly you've blown me away That's Super impressive thank you Soaring sails for a relatively infant Business have clearly impressed Sarah Davies And it looks like tej Lao Vani is in Harmony with the entrepreneur You probably know that pregnancy health Is a specialist area of interest to me So it all sounds interesting and I'd Love to understand how you make money Um so the app is 299 currently around 6
000 people download every single month But the app only represents nine percent Of our Revenue the majority of it 76 of Our sales mixes from the digital pack And how much do you sell that course 39 Pounds it gives you a Year's access to The course so look the the digital pack Sounds interesting but the other thing That's definitely caught my interest is Your valuation Yes it's over 13 million pounds 13.6 Million I know your eyebrows will be Raised they are definitely being raised So how did you get to that valuation Well you'll be pleased that it wasn't me That carried out the sums I have an Accountant and it was a team of Accountants worked on the valuation over Several weeks and what they've done is Work it down to the net profit what will Be left in the bank for the next five Years and extending for the timeline of The business yeah So I think this is where businesses Probably make quite a big mistake when They use advisors it's not just about The financial results of that business They've forgotten about the very thing That's the most important you are the Business if you're not there anymore the Company's gone Right It's what happens Hopefully I don't go anywhere no no
Hopefully nothing happens to me no and I've I've absolutely hope nothing's Happens but you take you out of this Business There's nothing left because you have no Ownership structure you have nothing in Place Oh you mean like I'm not Replaceable in the business well you're Not You've generated all of this so sadly if Something happens to you This business is in Dire Straits Siobhan is snapped back to reality as Peter Jones expressed his concern over The viability of her venture's valuation But Deborah meaden has some positive Affirmations that may restore the Entrepreneur's sense of serenity I love it when somebody just does the Thing that they want to do well and as The outcome of that You make money I love my job like I Literally love I can see Foreign It's not my thing I haven't even got children you know so It feels a little not authentic yeah for Me to get involved in a business that is Deeply authentic you know it will feel Like I was just just doing it for the Money but almost attract From the the thing that I think you are Trying to achieve So I won't be the best thing I'm out
[Music] Deborah meaden feels her participation Would prevent the project from being The Real McCoy and stands down from the deal And it seems that Peter Jones has also Made up his mind I have an issue with the business in Terms of the valuation you've come in so High it's like the highest valuation We've probably ever had in the den I'm Not over the line with it okay So sadly I'm gonna say I'm out You know I when I was pregnant I bought A hypnobirthing book oh yeah and and I Love the thought of it and then I was High risk with both of my pregnancies And so I had to go on to a high Dependency Ward and got through a Controlled labor and and I always Resented those people who got to do the Thing that I wanted to do that I kind of Had taken away from me so I've always Shut out this whole hypnobirthing thing Okay Um however you are brilliant So for all I decided right at the Beginning this was for those Airy fairy People and you're not alone in thinking That you know so many people write off Hypnobirth things they think it's for Hippies and that and they think it's Just for those people giving birth at Home any skill you need to learn is when Somebody's on a positive role
Really well I would let it roll sorry I'm sorry For all the reasons I explained I'd like To make you an offer oh thank you so I Will offer you all of the money Seven percent Thank you At last an offer from a dragon albeited Seven times the equity Siobhan was Hoping to give away Tagel Vani already has a hand in the Antenatal arena will he be interested in A potential partnership with the Positive birthing Guru So look I think you know you've done Very well In terms of where I'm coming from I Think there are a lot of synergies and It just sits exactly where I'm in terms Of my business so I'm going to make you An offer Um I'm gonna offer all the money but I'd Want 10 of your business Siobhan um You know I mean the baby business Um I'm looking at this and saying well if I If I were to invest what could I bring To the party yeah retailers tick product Development tick I take all the boxes I think I I would give you all of the money God is happening you're gonna cry
You know what I want yet it's definitely Not one percent I can't believe this yeah Um I would give you all of the money But I want ten percent And it tells you want to share I would Be interested I I'm open to sharing with Tuka he does Add a lot of value in other areas and We've got Investments in in the baby space as well Together A deal is with it touching distance for Siobhan as baby business bigwig's tej Laovani and Tuka Suleiman combined with An offer of 10 split between them Siobhan I think the time is to go and Practice those hypnobirth breathing Techniques at the back of the den I'll Do just that thank you Also on the table is a more competitive Ask of seven percent from Sarah Davies However both bids are way wide of the One percent Chevron originally presented Will the Hypno birth expert be able to Stay calm and focus on brokering a Better deal Thank you thank you for for the offers Obviously 10 or even 7 but 10 Um that's very steep um Amount of equity for the value of the
Business Um so I wondered if there was a room for Negotiation there on that Um what I might be prepared to do is if I got my money back in 18 months dropped The equity down to seven percent Provided two guys willing to drop as Well Well I I would match that So it's 5 Teach falling down to three and a half Percent each when we get our money back This is difficult Would you do The falling instead of three and a half Percent three percent each So it would be ending up earning six Percent of the business Um I'll say yes Smile Um yes I'll agree step So I think I'm I'm really sorry like I Know you'd be a massive asset but I Think I'll go with Great excellent thank you A win for Siobhan but there's still one Small matter to clear up just to let you Know your business partners are tej and Tuka sorry what am I saying hey I'm really sorry and with that result The entrepreneur leaves the den with two Well-connected dragons for the price of One
Oh My God I can't believe it to come out With Tage and Tuka who both have Experience in the industry just beyond What I was dreaming so it's yeah it's Amazing This is all about Taj and 2K Hi my name is Lent pleased to meet you I'm the managing director of Auckland Buildings I've come here today looking For a minimum investment of 250 000 Pound for at least a 30 stake in the new Business that we are creating called Camping bugs The camping book concept is simple we Design we manufacture we deliver and Install buildings then we release them To campsites hotels also leasing those Garden offices and as Beach Huts by Lowering the manufacturing cost by the Careful sourcing of materials and by the Use of waste materials I've managed to Get the cost of the building down so we Can now get out to the endline user at Very affordable lease rates the Buildings aligned they're insulated They're double glazed and manufactured For all year round use Following the growth of the glamor Camping business the Christmas Market Trade and the number of festivals There's now a ready market for this Product Any questions
Glenn can we have a look yeah Sergeant Glenn Brady believes his new Take on the glamping craze is about to Make him his fortune that's not bad it's Pretty solid isn't it the Lancashire Based entrepreneur needs a cash Injection of a quarter of a million Pounds to get his new startup company Off the ground But the Hefty price tag does not seem to Have put off Hilary duvet Grant I'm Hillary tell us a little bit About how it's made the cost of making It the retail price Etc I own a Timber building manufacturer and As part of that Business we have a machine that makes Log cabins right and as a result of that Production process I end up with a lot Of waste and scrap wood So if you look at the way the building's Done it's pretty much done on the whole Front and back panels from very short Off-cut September so these are the the Bits that are left from manufacturing of The log cabins and basically the Production cost would be somewhere Between 800 pounds to about 1500 pound Right okay And have you leased any yet all the ones That we that have been manufactured have Been allocated to campsites or to places And how many is that we've we've got
About 50 manufactured to offer A good start as Glenn settles easily Into Den questioning but Leisure Industry expert Deborah meaden knows This Market well So you say you're making these are Similar for between 800 and 1500 pounds Which I think is incredibly good value So um can you break that down in terms Of Um labor and materials at the moment we Make all the arch sections in a small Workshop that I have in Poland it's Roughly about 750 pounds the floor's About 100 quid the shingles are about 120 quid and then there's the labor for Putting up which it brings us to about The thousand pound mark you're telling Me you can make that whole thing there This whole unit take everything from the Inside but that is fun that's amazing That's fantastic Glenn 250 000 pounds I'm gonna do a quarter of a million Pounds Well the initial part of investment Would be to upgrade some of the the Production facility we've got but that Would only account for maybe twenty Thirty thousand pound worth of the Investment the investment would be to Build a lot of them quickly for specific Events that we know we can lease them Out but the money would pretty much sit
And situ if we didn't do that right if We don't lease any if we don't put any On campsites your money will stay in a Bank and not get touched Impressive product and a persuasive Argument for investment Glenn is doing Well But what of his other company Peter Jones wants to know Glenn yeah your current business yeah What what do you do manufacturing Timber Building sheds log cabins it's called Hook and Clough buildings what's the net Asset value of the business at the Moment We own the land the factory you've got The Machinery the equipment I would say Probably a couple of million pounds so Why would you not just do this yourself The motives for the investment as you Look at leasing the product or getting This product to Market quicker than we Ordinarily would do making two or three Each week Okay So I put a quarter million pounds into Newco newco spends my quarter of a Million pounds with your company Your company gets a return on the money Invested because I've given you work And also you own 70 of newco well I mean Normally people have a bit more of a Complicated process so that there's a Bit more smoke and mirrors but you've
Just gone no give me Court Milly query Give it to my company to try own 100 of No I mean the position that we're at now With this product it's ready to be taken As totally an autonomous business we Can't no because your people are Producing all of the stuff that the Company needs with my money It's a major setback for Glenn as Peter Jones uncovers a serious flaw in his Investment proposition And it looks to have incensed theoper Fetus [Music] Glenn what makes you think that anyone Is going to give you a quart of a Million pounds for something that's got Hardly any assets in it and all it is is Building some sheds And then if you do get orders for your Sheds the money's going to go to your Other company out to Poland My money's going to disappear please Please give me the answer why you think That's credible Well the reason why it's credible for Every thousand pound we draw off in Investment we will manufacture a Building that we can retail for between Five and seven thousand Pounds even as Garden offices but you can't because if You could you'd be making them day and Night as smoking a cigar on a Caribbean Beach
There's no business model that makes any Form of sense except for yourself I'm Out thank you Theoper fetus delivers a stinging Analysis and Glenn's earlier confidence Takes a hit Now will Duncan bannatyne agree with his Rivals concerns I want to take you back to your question Hurry ask you yep she asked you if you'd List down out yet And your reply was you'd allocated the Number two And I don't know what that means have You leased any of No Have any ever been leased out Well at least about half a dozen last Year Okay Um I'm out Hook it up right I'm going to let you Know where I am Glenn it's a little bit Insulting to come in here and ask for 250 000 pounds on a separate Business Without a track record and no basis on Which Anybody in their right mind would ever Consider investing and you don't look Stupid to me you won't be at all Surprised to hear I won't be investing I'm out okay I appreciate that thank you Very much
Glenn I think you pitch Was outrageous I think your business Model is preposterous I can't say anymore I just can't say Anymore I am out Short shrift from Three Dragons and the Bewildered entrepreneurs investment Dreams look to be all but over But Peter Jones seems to have something On his mind Clem would you be interested in the Conversation about investing in the Whole business Um To be honest that I wouldn't want to go Down that Avenue really why Um If you if you put 250 R if you for every Thousand pound you invest in these the Underlying product once we've made them Then there's one thing about a guy That's been in business for 30 years you Ain't going to be able to diversify my Train of thought by giving me some Willy Story about this if you've got a Business that has an asset value of 2 Million quid You're asking me to put 250 000 pounds Into a company that has no assets Why would you not entertain a Conversation about me coming into the Hole What would you bring to that business
That would oh yeah in terms of no I mean I just Don't quite know what to say You really should be coming in pitching The whole business but you didn't want To do that because you want to keep it For yourself This is definitely not investable so I'm Out okay thank you It was a promising start but it takes More than that to part these candy Dragons from their cash After my experience of that I've got to Say I've had better days in the office I wasn't expected to get quite a such a Severe reaction I wasn't prepared to Give part of my current business up and By doing that effectively I put my own Early meal coffee but that was fair Enough it was one of those things and Yeah I'm looking forward to proving them Wrong Foreign Hopefully we will come across well to The dragons it's difficult to know if if They're gonna like us or lose us So fingers crossed Um yeah they'll like us [Music] Hello dragons my name is Sinead this is My husband Adam we are parents to three Young children and co-founders of a Company called snuggle we design clever Baby products for modern parents
We're here today to ask for your Investment of 75 000 pounds in return For a five percent stake of our exciting And growing business When our first little girl was born she Was quite a sick baby as new parents This really focused our attention on the Products that were available in the Market and the gaps and room for Improvement our first product idea was The modern Moses basket a very popular Product but hadn't been given any Attention for a long time It's made from plastic so it's Wickerless it's hypoallergenic easy to Clean and a lot stronger than Traditional baskets Our next product was The Snuggle bath so The snuggle bath is clever it's got a Bump bump in the bottom that stops the Baby sliding under the large foam back Rest and it really makes it much easier For parents to watch the baby in just 12 Months the bath side over 40 excuse me 45 000 units worldwide Last year our Revenue was over six Hundred thousand pounds with a gross Profit of 200. and our three-year Forecast is 1.2 this year two next year And 3.3 million the following year At the moment we sell across the UK and Ireland with key accounts such as Amazon John Lewis and the white company we have Just been signed up as suppliers to
Mothercare and Tesco's thank you so much For your time and we welcome your Questions [Music] Sinead and Adam Murphy from County Down Are here to raise 75 000 pounds in Return they'll give away just five Percent of their company can we have a Look at it yeah absolutely yeah So the one of the unique selling points Is that oh it's going to break it [Applause] Sorry guys and we do tests Yeah as we've been tested for as a baby Wow Two casulliman's unconventional product Road test has left the entrepreneurs With a patch up job But Peter Jones has a problem he's not Sure is quite so rectifiable So Adam Sinead yes have you gone out on A limb with the With the valuation We don't think we have no Because you've come in and you've Clearly valued your business at one and A half million pounds The traffic light and the alarms going Off in my head and I'm pretty sure you Said that you had only turned over 600 000 last year making a gross margin of 200 that's correct what was your net Profit net profit was 22 000. So you you have a business that made 22
000 pounds last year That you believe is worth 1.5 million Today And our forecast this year that we're Already starting to work towards 1.2 Million and we should have a net profit Of 120 000 this year what's your run Rate in the last quarter I would say It's in the region of 350 maybe in the Last three months and what profit has That brought into the business three and A half percent So you've made nine thousand pounds in The last quarter Correct yeah so you're not on the Run Rate of 120 yet then No the way that um we've really built That forecast is the new products which Are coming in very soon Right I'm struggling to get past In fact getting to the point where you Get annoyed about this valuation Because your business is very clearly at This stage not worth the money that You're suggesting and every time I think Well actually I can change that but I Can't really because you've come in with The most ludicrous ridiculous stupid Valuation Peter Jones is not impressed with the Entrepreneur's financial appraisal of Their business Now Nick Jenkins wants to know if Sinead And Adam have the credentials to back up
That price tag I wouldn't have a problem so much with That if one of you had said for example I spent 20 years in mothercare I was Commercial director I know exactly what This Market is but I think okay what are All the elements are going to make this Work but it's your chance of getting There maybe we should tell you a little Bit more about some of the other things That are given us our confidence yeah Yeah Um in terms of the U.S market we are Just about to become suppliers with um Bye bye baby and Babies R Us Um we have also produced uh the bath in A white label for a Durell which are one Of the largest baby brands in the world Just for Brazil the first big Distributor that we've worked with is in China and now they're they're looking at Taking a sort of 40-foot container from Us every month Not my gang Really is not bad going at all A timely revelation of some potentially Lucrative international business deals Silence a skeptical Nick Jenkins Will global business giant Tuka Suleiman Give snuggles export plans his sale of Approval [Music] I think you've done great because you've Looked at the international market there
Are 800 900 000 babies a year in the UK Yep roughly They're a lot more in China yeah Floating Estates I've just come back From the states and I think it's a Massive market and the fact that you are Thinking International yeah makes the Politician a lot I think more viable Um I just happened to be in that little Sector at the moment I'm just going to get my head around the Valuation [Music] The Suleiman hints at investment but Isn't yet showing Sinead and Adam the Color of his money As he continues to weigh up the Investment proposition millionaire mum Of four Sarah Willingham is weighing up Their USP There are so many products out there I Mean there really are and to be honest They all do the same thing The question is is can you develop a Brand and that's very expensive and Really hard work and I think that's Going to take a lot more than 75 grand What we're finding which has helped is Is people are kind of getting on board With the story of us and how we started The company and and the fact that we Have our own children and that's Inspired the design of the products
Why is it such a unique story sorry I'm Missing it I I'm missing that as well I Mean why is this a new unique story No well it's not necessarily a unique Story but we found that a lot of the Customers who are buying from us they Just love what snuggle is about and I Love the fact that somebody that's Already had a child invented it And they That's the bit we've Both talking about that one I mean You're not unique in that I I was I Honestly I was out there in the street The other day there were loads of Children out there you are not the only People Foreign It doesn't look like Peter Jones or Nick Jenkins a buying Parenthood as a USP and Now Deborah meaden thinks the fledgling Entrepreneurs have made a Schoolboy Error I don't think Iran being strong at all [Music] If you look at that I think you've got Three brands on there you've got dreamy You've got bumgo and you've got pebbly Yeah what you haven't got is snuggle Yeah I'd think that was a dreamy that is so True I hadn't even I would have no idea Um do you know what my overriding thing Is and it's a personal thing not it's I
Don't even have children I have to feel something you know and I Just I just think yeah of course I could Do it as a job but I don't feel it okay Because it it's just not So Um you know for totally personal reasons I'm really sorry but I won't be Investing thank you thank you thanks Deborah meaden struggles to bond with Snuggle becoming the first dragon to go Out Sarah Willingham be feeling a little More positive [Music] What you've produced is aesthetically Really pleasing you know it's a nice Product and I like the idea of the Moses Basket I think it's good But you can't patent a plastic Moses Basket And If you go out there and you effectively Educate people that a plastic Moses Basket is the way forward because wicker Can be really difficult to clean Certain things yes Um How easy is it going to be for somebody Else to come out with that so You've got to be there with your brand And that's where I think you're going to Struggle So I'm gonna say I'm not going to invest
So I'm really sorry but I'm out thank You thank you I think you've done a cracking job of Getting the business to where it is Today my concern is about the the Probability of getting to this position Of selling three million a year You may well but the probability of you Getting to that 3 million isn't enough To take me over the line at this Valuation but I really do hope you get There thank you appreciate it thank you Nick Jenkins decides the investment Isn't a safe enough bet for him As Peter Jones heard anything to Persuade him the business is worthy of That seven-figure price tag I'm still miffed um I don't think that you will get an Investment from anybody at 1.5 million For your business But you have done a great job to launch A company and it's wonderful to see But you you leave me no room because There's no question and even if I was Really interested You're not going to give the the equity Away I know that already And that basis I can't invest time out Thank you [Music] That valuation takes Peter Jones out of The investment equation But will the dragon that broke the
Product earlier be prepared to broker a Deal now Look I think I I just said I like the Product I like what you've done And I like the fact that you're taking Traditional products and you're you're Modernizing it yeah Um and I think I can add a lot of value For this I'm gonna get an offer [Music] Your valuation's out You want 75 000 for five percent Well I'm gonna give you a hundred Thousand Okay But I want 30 of the business Because I believe that I can take you To the next level a lot quicker Especially in America So I'll give you more than you're asking For sure Uh because I think you're gonna need it And uh when I get my money back I will Give back 15 percent So could we have a little chat Sure thank you Tuka Suleiman is offering 25 000 pounds More cash than the 75 the entrepreneurs Were hoping for but in exchange he's Asking for 30 of the equity way above The five percent they were looking to Give away and slashing the valuation of Their business from 1.5 million to 330
000 pounds Firstly thank you very much for the Offer But we can't go that high we have a Counter Which is we will give up 15 and then if We hit the targets in the the coming Year that we said the 1.2 million we'd Like to buy back five which would leave You with 10. is that something that Would work I would love to have you on board we're Really good Foreign I'd reduce down to 25 and then when I Get my money down to 15. Because then it gives me enough Focus on to make it happen Um and I and I think yeah I'm giving you More money you're asking for [Music] Yeah We'd be happy to do it great Well done congratulations thank you well Done thank you well done I'm looking Forward to it thank you you're not Allowed to get into any more movies I I think in the U.S this will go down Fantastic yes great yeah well that's the Way to do it Sinead and Adam May well Have given away more Equity than they'd Hoped but they now have 25 000 pounds More cash than they came in for and a Successfully negotiated ratchet
Agreement with a global Tycoon you could End up now after that demonstration with A new nickname The baby dragon the baby dragon Well done thank you really great I don't think that we're worth 2K is Ever going to be dull [Applause] I have no idea what to expect from yeah Our future meetings with him but I can't Wait [Music] Okay [Music] London-based Dan Edwards is next in the Den tonight with a pioneering exercise Regime that's scaling the heights of Ambition our business is building better Humans it's just a tool to train body And mind through movement For us it's way more than a business and It's always going to be it's just our Way of life now [Music] [Applause] [Music] Foreign [Music] I just hope you don't ask us to do that Oh I wanted to go I do that every Morning great Um hi my name is Dan Edwards I'm the CEO And co-founder of Parkour Generations We're living in a world that is
Desperately in need of more movement the Information age has given rise to very Sedentary and immobile Lifestyles and That's had people out looking for Refreshing new ways to get fit get Active get mobile and to engage with Their body and mind and connect with Their environment parkour is a way of Training the body and mind through Movement including movements like Running jumping climbing calling Vaulting Early this year Parker was recognized as A new sport in the UK which is the first Country ever to do so we provide Services such as teaching classes Workshops events we also provide for Movies performance live display product Launch We already have early stage agreements With one of the largest gym chains in The states one of the most exclusive Ones in the UK to launch our parkour Programs this summer and this autumn We're looking for 150 000 pounds for Five percent of the company and we'd Love to know if any of you guys would Like to have a go well let's go that's It great A short-footed pitch from Dan Edwards Who's offering five percent of his Movement training classes in return for 150 000 pounds I'm going to come up That's it I'm going to go over exactly
Beautiful isn't that what I do at the End The next obstacle for the entrepreneur Is the dragon's questioning that's it Starting with Leisure industry Insider And movie fan Deborah meaden Dan that was fun Um so you do that really cool stuff over The roofs and over the yeah do you do That yes yes and what films have you Done most recent Productions we worked With were Spider-man Assassin's Creed Patient zero so I guess for me the most Important question is could you get me a Part in one of those movies doing Absolutely cool absolutely right All right now get serious Um you're obviously trading you're doing A lot of work so what's the turnover Last year was 424 000 and the year Before that I think was 357 a year Before that was 312. um profit profit Last year was 64 000 profit the year Before that was 28 and the year before That we actually made a loss of about 50 000 things we're building a facility in London the gym how big do you see this Going we see it fairly big for example In the fitness industry we want to do is License our content for example a gym Chain in the states might have 500 clubs And the idea is they pay a license fee Per Club per year to have your brand and Your content in there and you train
Their instructors and then they deliver The classes If you're above a certain age say I'm 40 Plus how easy is it to learn some of These things because you guys were doing Somersaults and flips and presumably That's quite hard to do what you see There is a little bit of the high-end Stuff Um but it's absolutely accessible to Everyone but the vast majority of Particle training is just refining your Movement skills And what speed the reaction with gyms in The UK that you've approached already For licensing something like this most Of them are very very very interested Which ones have you met them what have They said we've met pretty much a lot of The big ones the Fitness First and the Virgins and the David Lloyds and and They definitely want to engage with it But we haven't really found one that's Exactly the right fit [Music] Well how do you mean the right fit Because presumably all of them should be Really interested in something which is New and exciting yes but there's certain Things that we want in place so we're Very interested in making sure that it Retains its movement quality uh off the Big chains have any of them shown real Interest yes
How many two to three were very very Interested and we are still in Negotiations with some of them Tej lalvani has uncovered potential Interest but no take up from Big Industry players Which has left Peter Jones questioning The company's seven-figure price tag I was hoping that you would come in and Say well I've signed three gyms we're Doing a rollout that's why we need 150 000 and we've already got all of these Signed up and here are the deals but You're not Why have you come in with such a Ludicrous valuation We are rolling out In Summer with the Second largest gym chain in the states So they will be piloting the programs There then they will roll out to their 450 clubs so that is going ahead and Then UK in the Autumn we're going to be Rolling out in London with a very Exclusive gym One Gym yeah it's a very high engine Let's say very expensive gym to remember Yeah but it's kind of like you you want To build a fire and you've at the moment You've collated some wood but you don't Have the ability to light the fire Foreign You have no contracts in place And you're valuing this at 3 million Which is
A bit annoying I can completely understand how you Might look at that way It's been recognized as a sport in the UK that's a huge thing so this is the Amount of work we've done to create this Industry and ring fence our products and Our content in our brand that's the Point you haven't done that you have not Done that at all Tell me about the agreements that you've Got in the UK with one gym not a gym Where it's an exclusive gym I want to Know the big gyms so you know kicks so Kicks is the most expensive kicks yeah Great awesome if I go on Saturday and Say what activity have you got in your Gym they'll mention you or they they Might give a secret they won't keep a Secret because they don't be very well There but but yes we are piloting the Courses have you signed up the agreement Uh well it's signed no we haven't signed Agreement So you have the sign no no okay fine You've answered my question right you're Not signed yeah I get the impression that You're dreaming So all I can say to you is keep on Dreaming It's not gonna be with my money and I'm Out [Music]
A skeptical to kasuliman is the first Dragon out unconvinced by Dan's claims Of impressive growth on the horizon But Jenny Campbell Queen of the business Flip is more concerned about the Company's Financial structure you've Used we a lot who owns this business There's three um co-founders so there's Three shareholders so the equity is 33 And a third each is it and and what Money has gone into the business already There's no money's gone into it from any Loans or anything like that None of you have invested any money in This you've just lived on what it's Generated yeah So have you heard of the phrase in Business having your own skin in the Game yes You've got no money in this business Yourself you put nothing in I suppose we didn't have the cash to put In An investor will always want to see some Level of investment from yourselves we Have entrepreneurs in the den here Who've mortgage the houses sold their Houses because actually I don't always Want to see money in the business speak On your behalf some investors will want To see that yeah You have to put yourself in and investor Shoes and say what's an investor going To look for and they need to see a
Credible entrepreneur a credible product Something that will give them a rate of Return and it's impossible to see a rate Of return on this for this level of Investment for the level of equity that You're offering it's really quite Difficult There's nothing concrete there at the Moment to hold on to so the first newly Recognized sport in 30 years in the Country that's that's a big thing I do Recognize your passion and enthusiasm For this I don't recognize the business Opportunity at all Foreign Jenny Campbell doesn't see a viable Proposition and is the second dragon Down Will Deborah meaden who already has a Foothold in gym-based exercise classes Take a leap of faith and invest in this One [Music] So Dan I think it's really cool what You've done I think it's fantastic that You've got this recognized as a sport But the first two words I wrote down are Class size how many people can you get Into a class We run classes regularly that have up to 70 people in the class depending on the Space so in a small space so for example In here we'd probably have a Max of 40 People in the class
Now I get that but the point about class Sizes gyms are looking to attract more People into those rooms and every time You put a piece of Kit in it knocks a Body out and it's the size of the Movement that we were doing there you Need space to do this that you don't Need when you're standing next door to Each other and moving But also it is going to be restricted to A certain type of person so it worries Me that your Market's getting smaller And smaller So I won't be investing I'm out Thanks Daniel I think you've been really disingenuous Coming in here with a valuation of three Million and Incredibly disappointing You've made it absolutely clear that you Don't want investment because you're Valuing your business at 50 times its Earnings which is ludicrous So on that basis I'm out The Jones rejects the deal irritated by The valuation Only Fitness fan tej lauvani is still in Play Can Dan persuade The Last Dragon Standing that his training system does Have legs I actually love what you're Doing You know I always love climbing as a kid The only thing I'm struggling with is
The reception that you've got from some Of the chains I mean they should have Adopted it and taken it and signed up And I think you're probably gonna have a Lot of difficulty my advice is to Continue with the one gym that you're You're Building make that a success fill It up and then move on to another Location and you just own the franchises And build it up But even as a as a punt the equity split Three ways between you and if I wanted 40 I'm going to be the major shareholder And that just doesn't work It needs to be you guys driving the Business forward Is not a feasible investment so I'm out Thank you very much Cheers So Dan vaults away without a dragon Investor unable to avoid the perhaps Inevitable fate of those who overpriced Their startup in the den Valuations people-based valuations it's A real problem it just gets in the way Of a proper conversation doesn't it I'm pretty sure we are going to get Investment evaluation we want we will go On from here and prove the dragons wrong Hello my name is Matt King and I'm the Inventor of week you for you And I'm pitching today for 150 000 Pounds investment in return for one Percent equity stake for my established
Profitable business But sorry to interrupt you but do I get It right you said 150 000 for one Percent that's right yes My company specializes in helping people Get through to busy call centers without Having to wait on hold and I'm going to Show you how we do that with one of our Products the wiiqview app to use it you Just open the app Enter the number you wish to reach and Hit start call So now we're being put through to the Call center Okay so now we're stuck in the queue we Just press nine star Okay now we can end the call There we go and now we're waiting in the Queue but your phone's no longer Connected to the call rather we're Queuing for you and will be reconnected Automatically when the agent answers It's a real no-brainer for anybody to Use Now the Wii queue few app is not what we Sell what we sell is the business Product that we sell to call centers and That's actually the main focus of our Business because it generates Substantial ongoing revenue streams for Us and we already have several High Street brand name customers and last Year we sold over a million minutes of Weeks you view for business to UK call
Centers alone Um so what you're saying is you valued a Company at 15 million pound That turned over 300 000 with a net Profit of forty thousand yes how have You arrived at that valuation well we're Looking at the size of the market really Uh according to the Department of trade And Industry uh the UK markets were 300 Million pounds alone Oh are you for real Mark can you explain to me how the Department of treating industry Evaluated Uh the market for people who want to buy An app sure so uh there was a recent Study by the department of trade and Industry that found there were 6 200 Call centers in the UK with 10 or more Staff uh uh taking or making calls 66 of Those are inbound positions and the Average Agent salary is 15 000 pounds a Year uh the average reported answer rate At the call centers is 95 so if you Multiply that I just gotta do my Question I am answering your question I'm just explaining how I get there Today yes uh so uh if you multiply all That that means that the current Spending on answering inbound calls is 13.7 billion pounds a year so that means That the five percent of abandoned calls By the same logic are worth at least 700 Million pounds a year in the UK this is
A complete windup why are you here this Is not a windup of course it is you're Not listen you're a sensible guy you're Not delusional you're trying to have a Bit of fun Um the fun is about to backfire very Seriously and you're about to go up Those stairs faster than you came in I have to tell you this is disappointing You are smart you've got a product that Works if you'd come in here with a Sensible valuation asking for a sensible Sum of money I'll bet you I'd have Invested in you right but I'm sorry what Happens to the call centers that say All our operators are busy at the moment They've actually clocked your number one Two three four five We will return your call within one hour What's wrong with that you have when You're making one of these callbacks You're actually taking an agent off make Taking those inbound calls so let's say You've got 10 agents somebody requests a Call back in the next cycle you've got Nine agents taking email it's automated One and one person making outbound calls So now your inbound queue is getting Longer because you have fewer agents Making uh taking the inbound course so Pretty soon you find you have eight Seven six yeah and uh pretty soon you Find you're an outbound call center did Anybody ever tell you that God gave you
Two of these and one of those I believe that's the first time well I'm Telling you now and also please use them Wisely okay So would you like me to finish Explaining what the problem is but That's not really no okay there are Systems out there that will log your Number logical and an operator will Return the feedback that we've had used That not only are the authors well you Should oh All right well thank you for taking the Time to almost listen to me today
