An App With ‘Planet Saving Potential’ But The Dragons’ Aren’t Convinced | Dragons’ Den

Okay I've always had a passion for trees and Planting and that's how the project Really started I thought this is a good time to do Something for the environment and I Believe my product will curb climate Change looks nice and green And I hope there are meeting will see That too I'm looking forward to this [Music] Hello my name is Alex I would like to Ask you for seventy thousand for seven Percent in my company the my tree up Lets the user generate store and Purchase carbon credits the app also has A carbon footprint calculator so by Answering a few simple questions it can Show a user their carbon footprint we Have a tree Park and a we sell small Trees for 25 pounds and as the trees Grow every year they generate more and More carbon offset so a user can then See in the app exactly how many trees or How many carbon credits they need to Become carbon neutral it's sort of like A banking app I call it because it will Show your tree as it grows but the user Does not necessarily have to use it to Offset the carbon credits they can also Put the carbon excess into leaks into Our tree pool like a carbon exchange Because we anticipate companies that Have a need for carbon offsetting to

Come to us and buy from the tree pool so It becomes profitable for them Thank you for listening to my pitch Today and if you have any questions Please fire away [Music] Form that allows users to offset their Carbon footprint by planting trees and Trading their carbon credits in is the Offering from entrepreneur Alex Jovi [Music] He's looking for seventy thousand pounds In exchange for seven percent of his Company And before she stumps up any cash Sara Davies wanted to know more about the Carbon crunching concept Now I'll be really honest in just saying I don't understand in detail the carbon Neutrality I understand that you know I Generate a carbon footprint and I should Be working to neutralize that but the App isn't doing anything to try and Educate me in changing Behavior it's Just given me a way to pay to offset the Cabin that I've generated will show you How your lifestyle affects the carbon Footprint you generate So it might ask you what vehicles you Travel and what distance and so in a way It educates but it's primarily geared at Becoming carbon neutral and doing Something about a person's carbon Footprint

I think the whole concept isn't is Incredible it sounds big the idea of Creating a a platform for carbon Footprint trading and and buying trees To offset your carbon footprint did you Come up with this whole idea yes so it's Not really possible to access carbon Officer credits in such an easy way here With just one tree purchase it shows Your offset and it's ongoing so as the Trees grow you know in the first year it Generates 150 kilograms in year two it's 200. yeah no I get the benefits and it's Definitely an interesting model but has Anyone else not done this before is There carbon trading platforms online Uh not a trading platform so you're the Only person offering that so so as far As I'm aware in that sense yes [Music] Discovers the entrepreneur has some Unique Tech that could have Planet Saving potential But Peter Jones wanted to put the app to One side and dig deeper into the tree Planting aspect of the business You've got a field yes Tree Park is by Reading it has a capacity of 30 000 Trees did you have to buy the field this Particular Land We lease and what what Is the cost of that We currently pay six thousand pounds Annually but you're Basically leasing land and you're

Selling Something for people to put on that land If you decide not to continue with that Land who owns it the people who purchase Trees own the trees so the trees will Always stay there it just wouldn't Necessarily be a dislocation oh you'd Have to dig them up Uh potentially yes And relocate them somewhere else yes 25 pounds you're charging for a tree What does it cost you between three Pounds 50 and four pounds to initially Plant the tree the tree needs quite a Bit of caring initially it needs to be Steak it needs to be protected so like Maybe that's at least five pounds per Tree So you've got 30 000 trees that you can plant you're Going to charge 25 pounds of tree At capacity that means that the maximum Income you can receive is three quarters A million pounds yes And out of that three-quarter million Pounds you've got to pay 150 000 costs For the treats so the maximum that you Can get is six hundred thousand pounds Worth of income yes that's correct yeah That's about right however You've got to pay six thousand per year To the landlord of that field well so we Have an option we can purchase the land If we want to for how much that's 200

000 200 000 okay I'm gonna buy the land So I've now made four hundred thousand And then you've got to go and find Another field Because people might continue this Process and that's your business model Yes our business model is primarily that But but it's also doing something great By generating carbon offset credits I'm Not saying it's not doing anything great But I think this is the key point for me If I was to go all in and believe that You're only going to do that one site And sell it all and make that money I would have to get for my 70 000 about 17 and a half percent of the equity of The whole just to get my money back So you're currently selling a business I'm valuing it at two and a half times It's real value Because the only possible amount of Money you can make out of that field is 400 000 pounds then you're valuing out a Million today to investors Peter Jones is digging on Earth's Evaluation based on future potential Rather than current worth A formula which rarely goes down well in The den And now to kasuliman wants to see Exactly what stage the sapling business Is at So how long has my tree been going a Year and a half now so in the 18 months

That you've been going you've turned Over what we haven't officially started Trading yet because the app is just in Its final stages because this is Pre-revenue that's pre-revenue yeah so When are you planning to launch this the Tech will be ready in a month and a half Um so what is your turnover plans for The first year second year third year I Want to know when I get my money back if I put in 70 000 pounds in your business Yeah so it's uh speculative to there so We I I can't tell you I'm anticipating You know a huge turnover of uh sales so I'm hoping to sell at least when we go I'm sure you're anticipating a huge Amount of sales but we only need our Overheads are so small uh but at least When you come in here as an entrepreneur You have to be specific You can't tell me your overheads are Small and you expect big returns that's All Pie in the Sky to me I need to Understand details and figures yeah so Okay what is that equate in numbers in Terms of money in terms of sales in Terms of profitability and your net Profit it's scalable Because as we go up our overheads go up So if we sell 500 000 trees there is Various figures involved for example the Our advertising goes up as well Alex I'm Not here to get a class in terms of Running a business and you know the way

You've presented your numbers it just Hasn't put much confidence in in you So I'm gonna quite quickly just say I'm out Tej lalvani runs out of patience trying To get to the root of Alex's Tree app Projections and becomes the first dragon To bow out but it appears Peter Jones Does see a future for the carbon Canceling platform I think that this is something that you Should continue with I question though whether it wouldn't be Better suited as a social Enterprise That's not to say that people don't Invest in Social Enterprise I do Well you haven't really grasped the Business model yourself And for that reason today I'm not going To invest but wish you the best of luck I'm out You know when I when I was looking at This before you came in and I saw that It was an app and it was clearly going To be something around carbon neutrality I was thinking oh I'm quite interested To see what this is And just with everything I've heard it's Just not something that's making me feel Compelled to want to be involved And definitely not from an investment Standpoint So I'm also out here thank you It's not an area that I'm familiar with

And I can't see how I can add value I Can think out the box as an entrepreneur Um I can see where you're at and see all The good you're doing Um unfortunately you know I was Struggling with it So for that reason I'm gonna say carry On with the good work What about okay thank you Further disappointment for Alex as three More dragons decline a deal That leaves the dense green Crusader Deborah meaden as his last hope of Securing an investment And it appears she has a few more Questions that she wants answering Before she considers handing over her Cash So great your carbon off setting sounds Fantastic but there are some good Operators out there and some bad ones I Am sure that there are carbon offsetting Schemes out there that are selling far More trades than are actually being Planted in the world so good news is You've got a billed you buy a tree you Can go and visit where it is what Species are you planting we are planting A predominantly mixed Woodland that's Good because there are big issues around Carbon offset sites doing single species And devastating Wildlife so I could see The trees I could see its mixed species So that's all good news now and I'm

Going to take a deep breath on this okay We're gonna have to talk about the Revenue model okay and you're going to Have to give some numbers not just words So in Year One How many trees do you think you're going To be selling Well this depends on on the advertising We do can we maybe talk about where we Break even Alex I'm not going to let you Make a mistake and fall into a trap of Really winding me up Okay sorry I'm hoping that initially if We sell 5 000 trees we break even from Our research we know that users will buy Possibly more than one tree because they Like the idea that grows on average Possibly five trees for one user Alex I just wanted you to stick to some Numbers not take me off on the words You've got to understand that when You're looking for investment These are basic questions You know I'm going to give you 70 000 Pounds how much am I going to earn is Not a difficult question So I'm going to tell you where I am I love your journey and I love that You're trying to do the right thing But you couldn't really demonstrate the Model I learned more from Peter I think About your business than you were able To explain I'm really sorry Alex

I'm Matt thank you Thank you I really appreciate it good Luck Alexander your inputs and feedback Thank you thank you for your time today Thank you the tree trading entrepreneur Has his investment dreams filled by the Dragon who appeared his most natural fit And Alex is forced to leave the den Empty-handed I'm disappointed the dragons didn't see The investment opportunity here is a Nice chat but unfortunately it doesn't Make an investable business Our app is launching one way or the Other there isn't anything else really Out there and that's it you know someone Has to take the first step to do a Little bit so I hope to prove them wrong

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