Top 3 Times A Dragon Has Tried To Help | Vol.2 | Dragons’ Den

Thank you Good afternoon my name is Mark Greenhouse I'm the managing director of Captivate media Limited Put simply Captivate is like television In a taxi we've tried it and tested it Over a period of the last 12 months in Edinburgh and 30 taxes Um Captivate Delivers advertising messages directly To Passengers and taxes who are who are Captive Um Mark is having terrible problems Describing his business Our product system uses our own unique Software Which we've developed over two years The the um Feel of difficultness I've got a kraken pitch and it's and It's leaving man it was fine earlier Uh No let me put you out of your misery Because you're not as clear you're not Sure where to go next with your Presentation Mark has been rescued by Rachel elnor but he's completely failed To explain his business which runs Advertisements on screens in the back of Taxis He wants a hundred thousand pounds in

Exchange for ten percent of the company But after his disastrous pitch the Dragons will need a lot of convincing Duncan Valentine in particular What exactly do you think your product Is because anyone can take a television Screen and stick it in a car or a cab It's an information an entertainment System which sells advertising space Around it but what it provides to the Passenger what's in it for them is local News and weather spots we already have a National broadcaster agreeing to provide The news and Sport coins anybody can Stick a television in a cup well it's Not a television the capital I'm sure They could our system can Um change their advertising images Remotely and so from a single point we Can change the any content and any Individual taxi anywhere in the world Duncan bannatyne is unimpressed by Mark's big plans to feed TV style ads Into taxis across the world despite this Mark is prepared to be painfully honest About the results of his business's Trial run in Edinburgh during the trial The system wasn't stable and so that Would cause occasionally volume to to be Set and then it would suddenly go up or Whatever and so rather than come back or Report it it's easier for a driver just To to find a way of switching off and it Could do that they can't do it now so

The drivers won't interview your system Your system was interviewing with their Job basically That's right well if it malfunctions and The passenger says it's too loud there I Don't want this on it so the passenger Can control it Um Passenger can turn the volume up or down They can switch it off So taxi drivers have a problem with Mark's system and passengers can turn it Off this is hardly likely to fill the Advertisers with confidence Mark is Struggling to impress the dragons How much money you're looking for Mark The company is in a position right now To begin a national role at we've Completed all our investors to tell me No I'm just going to I'm just trying It's foreign To begin a National Rollout Although we'll let acquired one hundred Thousand to to support and strengthen Our balance sheet okay so what Percentage are you given for the hundred Thousand that you're raising ten percent Ten percent so you're buying this Product at a million pound a volume Beyond a million but Millions the least Of it except I mean if you said to be I'll buy it off you for a million now I Wouldn't sell it Despite the negative reaction to his

Business Mark still believes it's viable Now the dragons want to discover if There's anything in the business to make It worth investing in How much money have you been in the last Year a hundred and twenty thousand Approximately if you've got a product It's made 120 000 a year why do you need Money from us Because it's eaten up more than that a Year well I mean Money you make is money coming in man It's money going out so there's more Money going out now what is coming in You're not making 120 000 a year you're Not making any money okay no that's not Making any money in that case and what We're trying to do is you're losing then Mark because so your turnover is 100.6 000 a month just now you're losing six Thousand pounds a month Well it's time to give up This product's not valuable and I have No interest in investing in it so I'm Out Fair enough Duncan bannatyne is out not only has Mark got a poor grasp of figures but He's also admitted his business is Losing a massive six thousand pounds a Month the Revelation has shocked the Dragons Doug Richard thinks Mark is in An impossible situation I have a huge concern for you and your

Business and I feel very bad for you Because everything you're talking about Is saying based on today's technology I'm going to do this and yet every Single technology you're talking about Is changing you say well I'll make money No you won't the next guy will the guy Who Waits until such time is this stuff Costs very little then this will be real You are in front of yourself and it's Unfortunate because somebody else will Profit from your laws and the smartest Thing you could do Would be to not go ahead It's getting worse for Mark Doug Richard Thinks Mark's business won't succeed Until the technology gets cheaper so He's out there are three dragons left Peter Jones Simon Woodruff and Rachel Elenor who's heard enough I mean you've got 30 of these going You're losing 72 000 you put them in 3 000 taxis you're losing 7.2 million and Just the capital cost doesn't work like That it doesn't work well and I I can See of course Marcus And and I you know I'm sitting in the Cab I can turn it off or I can turn it Down I mean do you know how many Advertising messages an individual gets On a single day Do you know what the figure is no I Can't think of the top here but it's Thousands three thousand

Sorry no I'm not interested Rachel Elenor is out along with Doug Richard and Duncan bannatyne Mark Desperately needs the hundred thousand Pounds he came for but his hopes for Investments are collapsing There are only two dragons left Simon Woodruff and Peter Jones This is not a business concept that is Ever going to give payback The Proven The concept I have to prove anything He's already said you're not making Money at it the proven advertisers want To buy into the some of the national Companies that have used it already you Know we've not got enough I think you're complete that's poppy cup I'm telling you just be quiet it's Working and it's demonstrating just Listen listen you've got to listen you Say you need 450 000 well of course you Do because you're you're not going to Get payback because the uptake of this It won't be there and for that reason Alone and that reason I am not Definitely not going to be investing in The business Having torn marked to shreds Peter Jones Is out despite four dragons pointing out Major flaws in his business Marcus still Insisting it'll be a success Simon Woodruff is the only dragon left and if Mark doesn't start giving some Convincing answers he'll leave without

The hundred thousand pounds he came for Well I've been in your taxi when I was In Edinburgh this summer I went in these Taxes and I go and tell you first of all I hated them I was the guy who turned Them off immediately you've got a burn Of 6 000 pounds a month How am I as an investor going to make Any money out of this only because People I mean basically we make the same Amount of money per cap the more cabs we Put up the more space we've got you know How am I going to make money out of this Tell me numbers Well have you had the way I'll make a Money we sell advertising space and so What are the numbers you're losing six Thousand pounds a month now how much Advertising space are you selling now if I can refer to my business plan Um unless it's in your head right now And you absolutely know that I'm not Going to put my money and trust you with My money unless you know that like that Boom If you really believe that I'm going to Make money you're going to look be Straight in the eye now and you're going To tell me how I'm going to do it I mean I don't know what more I can say To you the words aren't coming to the Business works but looking for Investment if you guys don't back it That's fine if you haven't told me how

I'm going to make any money so I'm not Going to give you the money thanks for Your staying Mark is leaving the Dragon's Den with Nothing after getting off to a bad start Things never got better and in the end He could do nothing to persuade the Dragons to invest that was fun wasn't it Captivating captivating [Music] Mark I detected quite a bit of Negativity up there were like a bunch of Wheels Savage the you know straight to Salvage my ideas Um someone concerned though because I Would have thought that I would have Expected more positive advice you're Losing six thousand pounds a month I Mean that's well that was I've done all Of certainly I I mean but the thing is Just said look we're losing six thousand Pounds a month I mean it almost looked Like you were trying to hold back some No I'm not a time you know I'm an honest Guy the company is there you know it's Trading we've got National Um brands that have already used the System and I'll continue to use it Next into the den a Lincolnshire couple John and Claire Brumby Crisps are one of the nation's favorite Snacks we Munch our way through an Astonishing 6 billion packets every year John and Claire believe their low-fat

Vegetable crisps are a perfect fit for These health-conscious times But will the dragons bite Hello Dragons I'm Claire and this is my Husband John And we're here today to ask for 75 000 Pounds in return for 15 equity in our Business scrub is vegetable crisps Our crisps are at least 30 less fat And 18 less calories than standard fried Vegetable crisps they're also gluten Free We launched scrubbies in May 2012 with The intention of bringing a healthier Snacking option to the market and we're On a mission to bring healthy snack into The masses The UK snacking Market is ever growing And is currently worth 3.3 billion Pounds with the crisp sector worth 930 Million pounds We've got some great high-profile Listings today namely Harrod Fortner Mason and partridges Our crisps have been warded a gold star At the Great Taste Awards and scrubbies Has been named a Cool brand We have secured a listing with the Online supermarket ocado And we are also launching into circuit 200 waitrose stars in the free from Section [Music] A low-key pitch from John and Claire

Brumby who are looking for 75 000 pounds In exchange for 15 of their business In a saturated Market Deborah meaden Wants to find out more about their Competition So Claire John Um What other products are there in this Marketplace because there's quite a lot Of vegetable type crisp products around Aren't they there are apart from our the All the other vegetable crusts on the Market are standard fried whereas we use A unique technique The fried at a much lower temperature Below 130 degrees where a standard Frying is approximately 180 degrees How big is that bit of the market Um the the regular Standard fry Um that's massive the biggest company I Think they sold for 100 million Um so has this ship already sailed Though In terms of the mass Market Not at all we don't believe so because Because of the you know the the more Held conscious consumer Um we believe that we're giving a Product that's got all the Fantastic Flavors but you don't get the greasy Aftertaste you'll notice on your fingers Or on the roof of your mouth when you've Eaten the product no you're right I mean

They are very very nice actually Often when you do get a lower fat and a Healthier snack sometimes you compromise On the taste so we want to still retain The Taste but we also wanted to get the Healthy effect which is why we settled On this cooking method that we use which Is the vacuum frying I know that you're Saying it's different because of the way It's made but how difficult is it going To be without a huge amount of money Into marketing to be able to get the Message across well we've done lots of Markets we've done lots of festivals and People come to us and tell us we love Your crisps they're not as greasy and It's beautiful because you stand there And they tell you are you USPS you don't Even have to say anything These passionate entrepreneurs believe They have a product that sells itself But Duncan bannatyne is eager to Establish where the current sales Support the hype Washer financially Year one we um obviously just part year We only had the one product and we sold 20 000. 00 Yes year two was 75. And this year we're protecting 320 000 Sales so how are you jumping from 75 000 To 220. because we're launching two Other products this year and we've also

Got the ocado listing coming on board And the waitrose listing You've done very well How much money have you put into this Physically about twenty thousand we took 15 out of our house when we got a loan From a family member for 5 000. you're 100 of shares between you no we've got 75 percent One gentleman's got 10 and another Gentleman's got 15 what did they put Into the business Combined they've put in 50 000. Step benefit you've been 20 is a 70 000 Pound been spent it now we've also had a Loan from the Holland Humber Business Development Fund for fifty thousand the Fifty thousand pounds do you have to pay That fifty thousand back yes the acorn Fund we had the 50 grand 50 000 from the Acorn we also had another 10 000 from Acon and we had fifteen thousand from Finance Yorkshire and are you surviving No have you got other jobs or are you Just doing this to be completely honest With you about three four weeks ago we Just we were we hit the wall so I had to Take a job Um but we we haven't given up as hence Being stood here today It's written all over Claire's face It's taken you to the edge hasn't it You've gone back to work Support your family

Three children The reason why we didn't have any money Was because we did get some personal Debt so we've been climbing ourselves Out of that that's why we couldn't get a Bank to help us or anything You've got a dream You got a business But you're you're broke We're not going to give in we're going To you know gonna build the brand And be fantastic Could John and Claire's complex Financial situation spell disaster for Their initially strong pitch Deborah meaden appears Lenny have Reached their conclusions It's quite hard this one isn't it we're Trying to work out whether actually it's A business you want to invest in as Opposed to help someone with their Personal finances I know No problem does this to you and you hear This Every day A hundred times over but there's no way We're going to stop I still think Ship sailed slightly on this one I just don't think it's gonna Scale the way that you think it might I'm out thank you I see the pressure on this business from Every single side

Um so as a business decision I won't be making you an offer so I'm Out thank you Two dragons have walked away from a deal Will Duncan bannatyne be any more Willing to take a chance on John and Claire [Music] Um there's a huge risk here for an Investor I think so I'm not going to Risk 75 000 pounds But I'm going to make you an offer I'm going to offer you half the money Okay 37.5 thousand pounds for 12 and a Half percent Remember the rules of the den state that Entrepreneurs must get all the money They've asked for or they get nothing at All Time for Kelly hoppen to have her say Half of me sitting here with my heart And then there's the business side of me But I can't sit in this chair and Make a commitment to you That I can make this work if I don't Honestly think that I can So It's with sadness but I'm afraid I'm out Okay thank you [Music] Four dragons have now declared their Positions John and Claire's chances of securing The cash injection their business so

Desperately needs now rest with Peter Jones Can I ask you how hard you're going to Work on this investment I'll put in whatever effort I need to Remember I'm sure you will as well Doing it then Um we'll do all the work [Music] What's the 60 000 Euro to acorn When was it taken out February 2012. Foreign [Music] Yes from Financial auction And finance Yorkshire Gave you that over what term five years And when did they give it to you Um August 2012. Okay so that was your that was your Lifeline then John Claire I'm sorry I can't do it It would be really wrong of me It's going against everything that's Right In my own business head to do the deal So I'm going to tell you unfortunately I'm out Um So having just listened to Peter Analyzing the Lord's a bit more I think beer is right I think our Dragons are right I think my heart led

Me around my head and uh Um I wish you the best of luck but uh I'm up okay thank you thank you good Luck So heartbreak for John and Claire who Leave The Den with nothing They came close but in the end none of The Dragons Were prepared to stake their Money on the couple's low-fat vegetable Crisps Not initially that our passion and drive Did come across so it's disappointing Not to have crossed the line We're gonna launch into the listings That we've got it's a shame that we Haven't got a dragon to do that with us However we'll get through Foreign [Music] A london-based Jewelers Kirsty McLaren And Katie Pell Just gonna be staying here forever And it seems like some pre-pitched Jitters have set in oh we're a little Bit nervous I'm terrified Look at my funny trousers we're Absolutely freaking out but in all Honesty this is such an incredible Opportunity Overwhelming Well no okay the pair will need to find Some fortitude if they're to give a Glittering performance my biggest fear Is obviously forgetting all of the key

Numbers but hopefully I'll keep them in My mind Also in their minds are the dragons that The duo would most like to ensnare for Us Sarah is up there she's queen of Craft and we think that she can take us Big Time wouldn't you agree I would Agree we've also got our eye on Debs we Like that she's got her heart in the Right place with business can't call her Debs did I call her Deb oh my gosh oh my Gosh [Music] Hello dragons we're really excited to be Here today this is Katie I'm Kirsty We're both Jewelers and together we Created the workbench London today we're Asking for 50 000 pounds of investment For a 10 share of our business in front Of you you have one-of-a-kind ring Making kits and the concept is simple Designed and carved at home Cast and Polished with us Our rings are made using recycled solid Silver and they're hand polished and Cast in London and we're really excited To find the right Dragon to help us Really grow the business and spread more Sparkle in front of you you should have Some kits and some rings you've got your Kits So we have given you a kit each this is To display the range of products that we Offer

Sparkling mix of personality and passion From Jeweler's Kirsty McLaren and Katie Powell Tuka you have got a silver ring Workbench box who've come bearing gifts For all Taish we've Chosen and this isn't a Proposal yeah an 18 carat white gold Wedding band they're asking for 50 000 Pounds in exchange for a 10 share of Their design it's yourself ring business Peter you've got the Signet ring kit Sarah you've got the gemstone kit that Allows you to have a sapphire Ruby or Even a birthstone set into the ring that You design but will diamonds prove to be A dragon's best friend as the pair hone In on one of their favorite investors For the full Lowdown on how the kits Work Oh Deborah Wait for it you've got a really good one Um Deborah you have got the diamond box This allows you to have an ethically Sourced Diamond set in your ring that You design and make at home what do I do Am I so my am I sketching something on Here I'm not trying to carve something In that so you have the online tutorials To show how you carve carving away Little tiny chips of the jeweler's wax And you can only go very slowly because It is a hard plastic when you start off So you can't go wrong like oh my God

Right yeah yeah got it and so when you Come to the end of your um carving you May end up with something like this a Diamond shaped Signet that's what you Send back to us so we prep the wax by Making sure the wax is really beautiful And smooth and exactly how they want it We're masters of understanding someone's Wax ring design and what they really Want it to be and we can do little Tweaks if we if they need it and then The Casting Company make a mold for the Wax ring and offer a polishing service And you can choose gold plating and Engraving as well and that's gold-plated Yeah we used to get all of the gold Plating done out of the workshop in Hatton garden and they just charge such A lot of money and so we bought a Plating machine ourselves and since then We've worked out that that is a really Good bit of extra that we get on there Um yeah and people seem to like it yeah Kirsty and Katie confidently explain Their concept to a smitten Deborah Meaden and reveal a business gem in the Shape of investment in a cost-cutting Plating machine two casually now wants To see if the jeweler's books are as Bling as their rings Let's just talk about numbers yeah yeah You've got a valuation of a half a Million pounds so let's get these big Numbers what are they ladies

Okay in 2018 we had a turnover of 129 000 pounds with a net profit of 67 000 Pounds in 2019 we had a turnover of 137 000 pounds with a net profit of 70 000 Pounds and in 2020 we made 150 000 with A net profit of 97 000 pounds profit or gross profit net Profit what was your gross profit in That yeah Well I know that our profit margin was About was 60 No it's higher it's now 72. Oh God Oh We do have we do have this information But I know this isn't helpful now Um Um So what was the numbers again so it was 150 with 97. I just said that middle Number no is it 40 something No it's higher than that Um I can tell you are the rough sort of Margin is 72 on our best selling kit so That must be your gross profit 97 so you Can't possibly have made that net profit Okay yeah Okay oh um because net profit is after You've taken all your expenses your Salaries your overheads your rent have You factored that into the 97 000 or no Yeah that is the net profit isn't it Yeah that is the net profit Yeah

The entrepreneur's uncertainty over the Fundamentals of their finances leaves The dragons struggling to work out what Profits the pair are producing Kirsty And Katie's apparent poor preparation Appears to have ruffled the feathers of Peter Jones This is really lovely and it comes out Really well but at the moment I'm I'm Surprised you've even got here because Your numbers are appalling Yeah and that's what really concerns Accountant sorry no but look it's not Okay actually no asking for investment And if you want money you really worry Me immediately because you're all over The place with your numbers So we really need to get to the bottom Of those numbers yeah So what's your value of your current Stock so I guess I think a workshop is About five thousand pounds And then 26 in the bank so you've got 31 000 you've got any other assets No If you have can I can I answer The gold plating machine yeah Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I likeable for sure so how much did you Pay for the machine it's about 1 500 and We've got polishing machines and how Much were they 420 pounds and we've got Two of those two that's another 800 so That's 33 500. yeah

So what's happened to the 90 000 profit That you've made what have you done with It Thanks Travel as well because there's lots of Travel involved as lots of travels you Travel by private jet no So you think that you've been making 90 000 this year and 70 000 last year But you've only managed to accumulate 33 000 pounds worth of net assets Then you're probably only making five or Ten thousand a year Peter Jones's dissection of the Company's balance sheet shed no light on The jeweler's gross net conundrum and it Appears tej lalvani has heard enough The problem is as an investor But you're valuing your business at Almost half a million pounds At one end it could be 97 000 pound Profit or you could be ten thousand Pound profit so it you know you should Have done your homework to basically Understand where your net profit is Because as an investor to make a Decision I need to know how healthy your Financials are so you've shot yourself As in the foot Um so unfortunately I can't invest I'm Out The entrepreneurs feeble grip on their Company finances leads to the loss of Their first dragon and it seems that

Tuka Suleiman is not far behind You've come in here And it was very I was very enthusiastic With a product I was very enthusiastic We've got energy And all of a sudden The whole business side just collapsed Around you so for that reason I'm not Gonna invest them out I Katie and Kirsty Your presentation high-spirited clearly It's great but I think you've entered an Environment you need some real tough Love because you know it looks okay what You've done But you've completely messed up So sadly I'm out You have absolutely lost me on the Business front Listen you could see I loved it but this Is so disappointing yeah because like Toasters I don't know how you value a Business if we have no idea yeah unless There's a gut feeling And sorrow to my right Is in the position To understand the gut feeling Hi So I'm going to listen to Sarah okay Duo's pitch hangs by a thread as Deborah Meaden defers to the Craft Space Supremacy of Sarah Davies does she see The prospect as a potential gold mine or Will the Jewelers be thrown on the

Scrappy I'm trying to piece together the bits of What you've told us and I'm assuming the Figures you quoted us were gross profit Not net profit okay so you had 137 000 Sales last year but you'll have had a Lot of expenses in paying for things Like your rent or travel so for all You've made 70 gross profit you've Probably made very little net profit I Could understand that yeah can't Understand why you haven't made an awful Lot more money this well you might have Done because you've got to the end of The year and you've got 30 Grand in the Bank haven't you yeah yeah okay I think I've got a pretty good picture of the Business with all due respect I think I've probably got a better picture of Your business now than what you've got Um but I think it's an exceptional Product Think you're both very very creative I think you haven't got a business born Between you and and if I was to invest In this business today I'm pretty sure I'd need to run your business for you Okay so here is the offer I'd be Prepared to make you Right now today I would give you the 50 000 that you need but in return I would Want 45 of my business which gives me a Majority share to get the business into Some form of shape as a business once I

Get my money back I will reduce to a 30 Stake which leaves you with 35 each and I think that's fair yeah based on the Work I'm gonna have to run this business For you Thank you thank you very much for your Offer thank you Against the Run of play the Entrepreneurs secure an offer from one Of their desired dragons Zara Davis Deborah meaden the pairs other preferred Potential partner cunningly waited for The dens craft queen to make her move Will she be willing to undercut her Counterpart So the bits you've got absolutely right Today is you look like your product you Present really well I get your energy You've got ever so slightly deflated in The middle there but I I really like it The issue I have is the time that you're Going to need in terms of running the Business I'm afraid that's what's put me off So you won't be getting an offer from me Okay I'm out Deborah meaden declines the deal making Sarah Davies bid the only offer on the Table All right do we need to chat shall we Chat yeah just because it's traditional Because we're here and like you can see The trousers and they didn't know if

We'd get this opportunity Oh The dragon's demand for 45 dropping down To 30 when she receives her money back Is a decision that deserves some In-depth discussion what do you think Yes That was a bit quick basically we just Went we just went yes yes yes just to Make sure that we were definitely on the Same page which we normally are Decision thank you Kirsty and Katie Leave The Den with the 50 000 pounds They came for Wow and the dragon they Desired who can help to ensure the duo Have all the Hallmarks for Success Oh my God oh my God And she is gonna whip us into shape I am Under No Illusion that they are going to Drive me around the bend but honestly That is going to be a big money maker to Celebrate something fizzy will Definitely be involved and maybe an Excel spreadsheet because we've got some Work to do Foreign

Your First Funnel Challenge
Quickly Launch Your Idea And Turn It Into A Business That You're Proud Of In Just 90 Minutes A Day!

(This Can Work Even If You Currently Have No Tech Skills, Don't Have A Product, Or Have No Idea What A Funnel Is Yet...!) 

(Challenge Starts Every Monday)

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